scott@vtx-cpd.com
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Replying to Jane Sedgewick 15/04/2025 - 13:22
Hi Jane,
Lovely to see you at radiography rounds.
You are absolutely right that significant polyuria can lead to medullary washout, and this is an important consideration when interpreting the results of any water deprivation test or DDAVP trial. The rationale for recommending a DDAVP trial first (rather than starting with a formal water deprivation) is primarily related to safety and practicality:
In a patient with true CDI, the response to DDAVP is often quite striking even if there has been some degree of washout — typically you will still see a clear reduction in water intake and an increase in USG over the 3 to 5 day trial.
In contrast, psychogenic polydipsia (PP) cases, even if partial medullary washout is present, are much less likely to show a significant response to DDAVP alone. If they do respond, the magnitude is often partial or inconsistent.
If there is an equivocal response, a formal modified water deprivation test (MWDT) can still be considered afterward to distinguish partial CDI, PP, or medullary washout as the primary driver.
You are quite correct that gradual water restriction or hospitalization can sometimes help “re-set” the medullary concentration gradient. In practice, a period of 3–5 days of progressive water restriction (stage 1 of the MWDT) is intended to partially restore the renal medullary gradient. This improves the diagnostic utility of the subsequent dehydration phase. That said, hospitalization carries risks (stress potentially exacerbating psychogenic drinking, logistical challenges) which is why starting with a DDAVP trial at home has become a popular, safer first step, particularly when hospital monitoring isn’t ideal.
In terms of background:
Distinguishing CDI from PP can be very challenging because disorders of AVP secretion are recognized even in psychogenic polydipsia (e.g., altered set-point for AVP release, exaggerated or subnormal AVP responses). The natural pulsatility and variability of AVP secretion, combined with chronic over- or underhydration, further complicate interpretation.
A modified water deprivation test (MWDT) is time-consuming, requires rapid access to blood and urine analysis (especially sodium and BUN), and demands close observation to prevent hypertonic dehydration.
The MWDT typically consists of a three-stage process:
Gradual water restriction over 3–5 days to re-establish medullary gradients.
Complete water deprivation with careful monitoring for weight loss or rising USG.
DDAVP administration if USG fails to rise, to assess the response directly.
Pets with partial CDI show slight urine concentration with dehydration and a further increase following DDAVP. Pets with PP typically concentrate urine during the water restriction phase. Pets with complete CDI or NDI fail to concentrate until (or unless) given DDAVP.
Importantly, a therapeutic trial of DDAVP remains a practical alternative for many patients:
A dramatic reduction in water intake and increase in USG during a 5–7 day DDAVP trial is highly suggestive of CDI.
Failure to respond points toward primary NDI or psychogenic polydipsia.
This approach avoids the risks of acute hypertonic dehydration associated with MWDT and can be performed at home, making it far more practical and owner-friendly.
While rare, a note of caution: in psychogenic polydipsia cases, DDAVP can occasionally cause dilutional hyponatremia, so monitoring is still advised.
You raise an excellent point about the limitations of relying on total calcium (tCa) alone.
A useful reference on this topic is:
Tørnqvist-Johnsen C, Schnabel T, Gow AG, et al. Investigation of the relationship between ionised and total calcium in dogs with ionised hypercalcaemia. J Small Anim Pract. 2020;61(4):247-252. doi:10.1111/jsap.13109.
In this study, over one third of dogs with confirmed ionised hypercalcaemia had total calcium within the normal reference range, and importantly, most of these dogs had normal serum albumin.This finding reinforces that early or modest ionized hypercalcemia (for example, due to malignancy or primary hyperparathyroidism) can be missed if relying only on total calcium values, even when albumin is normal.
So if clinical suspicion remains high (e.g., unexplained PU/PD, urolithiasis, azotaemia), it is worth pursuing ionized calcium testing if available, or at least repeating total calcium to monitor for evolution over time.
Thanks again for such excellent and thoughtful questions.
Best,
Scott 🙂
Thank you for sharing such a brilliant post, so much to think about with these patients! I love how you have highlighted the importance of considering potential complications before proceeding with interventions, it is something that can easily be overlooked in the rush of stabilising a critical patient.
Thank you for also sharing the link to the early warning system, I had not seen that before and it looks really helpful.
A couple of quick questions. Do you find yourself using the Kirby’s Rule of Twenty every day for these patients, or more selectively depending on the case?
Also, how often do you reassess fluid balance in these patients, do you tend to stick to every two to four hours, or does it depend on how unstable they are?
Thanks again.
Scott 🙂
Thank you for sharing such a brilliant photo, seeing so many infusion pumps would definitely stress me out! 😅
I completely agree with you about non-invasive blood pressure monitoring, it is so easy to fall into the trap of trusting the number without stepping back and assessing the full clinical picture.
A couple of quick questions, did you find that the transversus abdominis plane block made a noticeable difference to his post-operative analgesia?
Also, would you routinely choose pimobendan for cardiovascular support in these cases, or was it more of a specific decision based on how Moose responded intra-operatively?
Really appreciate you taking the time to share this case!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Yvonne McGrotty 07/04/2025 - 16:39
Welcome pal!
Thank you so much again for your contribution!
Scott 🙂
Interesting!
Many of my clients will come already on these sorts of supplements. I often just brush over them and not pass too much comment… mostly cause I don’t really understand the full benefit.
Ignorance is bliss or burying head in sand! Possibly both!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Anna McCosh 06/04/2025 - 20:19
Hi Anna,
I was completely unaware of its availability until I started working in Canada, where it’s used fairly routinely in the ICU setting.
In terms of side effects, yes, that’s definitely the idea. The canine-specific product is considered less likely to trigger hypersensitivity or immune-mediated reactions compared to human albumin, which has always been the main concern with using the human formulation in dogs. That said, adverse reactions still seem possible with the canine product—just much less common based on what I’ve seen and read.
I haven’t seen a head-to-head comparison in practice, but in terms of tolerance, it does seem to be better. Efficacy-wise, it raises albumin levels predictably, especially the 16 percent formulation, which has shown a more pronounced effect. Whether that translates into a clinical difference beyond the numbers probably depends on the case, but it’s definitely reassuring to have a product that’s species-specific and appears to be relatively safe.
Let me know how you are getting on with the course.
All the best
Scott 🙂
Replying to Raquel M. 06/04/2025 - 13:46
Hi Raquel,
You’re very welcome! I think it’s great that you’re being proactive with client education, especially with dogs that are high risk for this kind of emergency.
The drilled-hole approach in balls is something I’ve seen a few times too. While, as you said, it’s not foolproof, the idea is that a central air channel could reduce the risk of complete occlusion if the ball becomes lodged. I don’t know of any formal studies specifically validating this, but from a first principles perspective, it seems reasonable, especially compared to solid, unvented balls which are much more dangerous.
Beyond that, some additional points I’ve found helpful for clients:
Avoid smooth, round balls that are just the right size to occlude the oropharynx, particularly rubber or silicone ones that are hard to grip. Safer options are larger than the dog’s mouth or have irregular shapes.
Kong-style toys or those with built-in air holes can be a safer alternative for ball-obsessed dogs.
Supervised play with retrieval toys, especially outdoors or during high-arousal games like fetch, is important to avoid the “gulp and go” moment.
Teaching a strong “drop it” or “leave it” command can be helpful for prevention.
Some emergency clinics also hand out basic first aid infographics or QR codes with links to vetted videos like the Heimlich ones we shared so clients have a quick reference if something happens.
If I come across anything more concrete in the literature, I’ll pass it along.
Best,
Scott
Replying to Helen S. 07/04/2025 - 11:51
I did not realise there was a diary of a CEO book?
I love the podcast.
Scott 🙂
Hello pal!
Thank you so much for delivering such a brilliant course!
We appreciate you!
Scott x
Hi Janette and Kath,
Really interesting!
As you outlined, Janette, the multi-modal benefits are compelling, from analgesia and MAC-sparing effects to its potential role in mitigating reperfusion injury. The Bruchim paper certainly helped shift our practice toward more proactive use.
Kath, your point about GI motility is a good one. I think it’s one of those grey areas where evidence is mixed. While lidocaine is often used to promote post-op GI motility in equine medicine, there’s some suggestion it may have the opposite effect in certain small animal cases. In the context of GDV, where the GI tract is already compromised and ileus is a risk, it’s something we monitor closely—but to date, we haven’t observed clinically significant worsening of motility when using the low-dose CRI as per Bruchim’s protocol. That said, if a patient is particularly unstable or has evidence of ongoing ileus post-op, we’ll often discontinue early.
Would be really interested to hear if anyone’s seen adverse effects or has adjusted their dosing protocols based on those concerns?
Scott 🙂
Replying to Katherine Howie 10/04/2025 - 19:00
I have never heard of these!
I am now educated. Scary thing is… you can buy them on eBay!
Scott 🙂
This whole chat has been fascinating!
Thank you everyone for your contribution!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Georgia 01/04/2025 - 08:55
Thanks for sharing the picture of Nelly!
Have a great weekend.
Scott 🙂
Replying to Raquel M. 02/04/2025 - 13:49
Thank you!
The recordings are available now!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Katherine Howie 04/04/2025 - 09:47
The one vet, one nurse set up can be stressful!
Makes me think of CPR situation too… not enough hands!
Scott 🙂
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