scott@vtx-cpd.com
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Hello Magda.
I am so pleased you enjoyed the session!
Regarding the trickle feeding. I would just calculate the volume of food as normal based on RER amd divide by 24 hours and set the rate at that. When they are not tolerating feeding I often go very slowly to start with… like 1ml/kg/hr!
That is very sad that you are not able to get the RC liquid feeds… I wonder what danger they pose?!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Magda Upton 20/05/2023 - 12:08
Hey Magda!
Hope you are well! Great question.
There is no evidence that PPIs are useful in these circumstances in veterinary medicine. I had a wee look at the human literature for gastric surgery and could not find anything.
So again, I would not use it routinely in these cases.
Hope that helps.
Scott 🙂
Replying to Francesca Lamb 22/05/2023 - 17:28
Hey Fran!
Great to hear from you. Although furosemide use has been reported, there is not currently sufficient evidence to support standard use in NCPE patients. While furosemide can be considered to decrease bronchospasms and act as a bronchodilator, it has several risks, notably dehydration, as these patients frequently cannot tolerate high fluid rates (because of microvascular permeability and risk for worsening pulmonary oedema). I tend not to use it in these cases and would have similar experiences with cases improving with supportive care (oxygen therapy etc.).
Would love to hear Liz’s thoughts on this!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Francesca Lamb 22/05/2023 - 19:07
Hi Fran,
Great to hear from you. Brilliant questions! I hope you are enjoying the course.
1. Medical and surgical options are available for treating feline pyothorax, although in the available literature there is no agreement as to the optimal treatment. Prospective studies evaluating and comparing the efficacy of the two options are lacking; furthermore, the literature often reports and compares only limited number of cases, making it even more difficult to draw any meaningful conclusion. Despite this, the general consensus is that medical treatment should be considered, at least initially, as the mainstay of therapy. In a recent retrospective study, 85% of cats (47 animals) with pyothorax in the review were treated medically, with only 5 cats not responding and requiring surgical intervention. In the case that I discussed we suggically interviened after 7 days.
Surgery should be considered if there is an inadequate response to medical therapy after 2-7 days – i.e., insufficient clinical improvement, continued fever, continued presence of pleural fluid or if fluid remains turbid or flocculent, and/or detection of an underlying cause on diagnostic imaging (e.g., abscess, suspicion of a foreign body, loculated (compartmentalized) effusions, thickened pleura).
2. I would indeed use IV antibiotic initially and move to oral once the patient is eating. I have popped the full treatment recomendations from the consensus staement below:
“The Working Group recommends that treatment of pyothorax include IV fluid administration and critically, drainage of pus after placement of chest tubes with intermittent or preferably continuous suction with or without lavage. Surgical debridement might be required in some cases. Sixteen reviewers (94%) agreed, and 1 (6%) disagreed with this Working Group recommendation. The primary comment was that evidence supporting the definitive need for thoracic lavage was lacking. However, based on lack of data supporting its use, the Working Group does not recommend administration of antimicrobial drugs into the pleural space.
The Working Group recommends the combination of parenteral administration of enrofloxacin or marbofloxacin (when available in parenteral form) with a penicillin or clindamycin combined with therapeutic drainage of the pleural space with or without lavage for the initial treatment or canine and feline pyothorax pending the results of culture and antimicrobial susceptibility testing. Sixteen reviewers (94%) agreed and 1 (6%) disagreed with this Working Group recommendation. The primary comment was that pradofloxacin administered PO as a single drug could be effective if available.
Treatment with an antimicrobial drug with activity against anaerobes should be continued regardless of culture results because fastidious anaerobic bacteria could be present. If combination treatment was initiated and the bacterial isolates are susceptible to both drugs in the initial treatment regime, then either of the treatment drugs could be discontinued. If organisms are grown that are resistant to one of the drugs and clinical improvement is not noted, that antimicrobial agent should be discontinued. A second drug to which the isolate is susceptible should be substituted if the animal has not responded sufficiently. If organisms are grown that are resistant to both antimicrobials or clinical evidence of improvement is not evident, antimicrobial treatment should be changed to a drug to which the organisms are susceptible in vitro. Fifteen reviewers (88%) agreed, 1 was neutral (6%), and 1 (6%) disagreed with this Working Group recommendation. The dissenting reviewer stated that mixed culture results can be difficult to interpret and so if the animal’s clinical condition improves on the first therapeutic regimen, changes should not be made.
It has been recommended that cats with pyothorax be treated for a minimum of 3 weeks and ideally 4–6 weeks. Additional research is required to determine whether shorter periods of antimicrobial drug treatment might be adequate. Serial thoracic radiography might be useful to determine whether antimicrobial treatment needs to be continued, although further study is also required to determine whether persistent radiographic abnormalities correlate with the need for additional antimicrobial drug treatment. At a minimum, follow-up radiography should be performed for 10–14 days after starting treatment and at completion of treatment. If the pyothorax persists or reoccurs after cessation of antimicrobials, repeated thoracocentesis should be performed for cytological assessment and for culture and antimicrobial susceptibility testing.”
3. The alternative is just normal saline. To lavage the thoracic cavity, you should first remove as much pleural effusion as possible. Then, slowly instill 5-10 mL/kg warm sterile saline, gently roll the cat around, then suction back until negative pressure (I would use 20 ml/kg slowly). Note that all the instillate will not be obtained. This process can be continued several times a day initially, then tapered and used as needed. Chest tubes can be removed depending on clinical improvement, but can generally be considered when fluid production is less than 2 ml/kg/day, cytologic evidence of infection has resolved, and radiographs are improving.
4. BAL is not safe for every patient. I must admit that I would normally carry out BAL in more chronic patients. I would sometimes carry out this procedure in moreunstable patients with careful considerations of the risks/benefits.
I hope that helps.
Scott 🙂
Hello Rosie!
So lovely to have you join us! Thank you for being so supportive of vtx!
I will be excited to see you navigate the Munro and CPD at the same time… those will be great posts for social media!
Have the best time away!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Rosanna Vaughan 17/05/2023 - 12:04
Hey.
It is a game changer for some cats… and for you managing them!
Yes, I would get an off licenc form signed if possible.
Scott 🙂
Replying to Felipe M. 17/05/2023 - 19:10
Brilliant Felipe!
Thanks so much for this!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Emma S. 17/05/2023 - 17:13
Hey Emma!
Really glad you enjoyed it!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Rosanna Vaughan 17/05/2023 - 12:07
Hey.
No problem. We will indeed make the recording avaiable!
Scott 🙂
Hello!
These are brilliant questions. Glad you enjoyed the session!
I might save these for Yvonne at the live Q&A if that is OK?
I can answer sooner if you like, just let me know!
Scott 🙂
Replying to Rosanna Vaughan 17/05/2023 - 13:28
I understand the challenges of having the kids around!
I am sure you can hear them in the background of most of my webinars!
I am really glad you have been enjoying the courses.
Scott 🙂
Replying to Okba Takieddine C. 16/05/2023 - 10:46
Hello!
You are welcome to ask questions on the discussion forum at any time.
I will start a new post to deal with any questions from the first lesson.
Scott 🙂
Replying to Lindsay R. 15/05/2023 - 22:18
Lindsay!
Welcome. Lovely to have you join us. I grew up in Glasgow and now live in Ayrshire!
Let me know if you have any questions. I really hope you enjoy the course.
Scott 🙂
Replying to Okba Takieddine C. 15/05/2023 - 15:45
Hello Okba,
Lovely to see you here. Thank you so much for joining us!
I hope you enjoy the course. Let me know if you have any questions at any time.
Are you working in a small animal clinic in Dubai?
Scott 🙂
Replying to Francesca Lamb 15/05/2023 - 16:35
Fran!
So lovely to hear from you. Thank you so much for joining the course and for supporting vtx. I hope you enjoy the course! Excited that you are based in Scotland too! I am in sunny Ayrshire as I type!
Let me know if you have any questions and thank you again.
Scott 🙂
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